NPC / Mob stats (e.g. health, damage) may not match their level #427

Closed
opened 2024-01-12 06:03:37 +01:00 by GlitchyGirl · 9 comments
GlitchyGirl commented 2024-01-12 06:03:37 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Describe the bug
Subway NPCs despite being red have a tiny amount of HP and do negligible damage but award ~ 7k xp on death. So it takes killing two to level quickly.

To Reproduce
Steps to reproduce the behavior:

  1. Go to subway vendors
  2. Kill them
  3. Observe xp gain, and the ease with which they died

Expected behavior
They should do quite a bit more damage, and have quite a bit more HP whilst still being vulnerable.

----

 
**Describe the bug** Subway NPCs despite being red have a tiny amount of HP and do negligible damage but award ~ 7k xp on death. So it takes killing two to level quickly. **To Reproduce** Steps to reproduce the behavior: 1. Go to subway vendors 2. Kill them 3. Observe xp gain, and the ease with which they died 4. **Expected behavior** They should do quite a bit more damage, and have quite a bit more HP whilst still being vulnerable. ``` ----
reneraen commented 2024-01-17 23:46:18 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

I think I'd relate this and https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/507 together to be honest. It's a class of npc that grants xp and credits that shouldn't.

I think I'd relate this and https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/507 together to be honest. It's a class of npc that grants xp and credits that shouldn't.
Zolarix commented 2024-01-28 01:33:07 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

After chatting with @prkdrake , this issue is separate to #507 because the vendors in the Subway are level 180 and should give a lot of XP (even though they should never be killed due to their level). The guards mentioned in #507 should be able to be killed but should not give rewards.

However,, #460 is likely a duplicate so I'm going to merge it in.

The underlying issue here is that in the subway and possibly in many other areas, mobs stats are not matching their level.

Output of .getfull health

Mob Output
Basic Tools Merchant [180 Trader] Basic Tools Merchant's health is 25 (25 + 0).
Mugger [6 Soldier] Mugger's health is 182 (182 + 0).
Discarded Pet [8 None] Discarded Pet's health is 25 (25 + 0).

The Mugger is an interesting one because their health is actually too high. Going to paste the unfiltered .getfull for investigation:

Mugger [6 Soldier]
------------------------------------
    accountflags 	0
    aggdef 	100
    agility 	20
    aimedshot 	54
    assaultrifle 	54
    attitude 	1
    biologicalmetamorphose 	54
    bodydevelopment 	6
    bow 	54
    brawl 	55
    breakingentry 	72
    breed 	1
    breedhostility 	100
    burst 	54
    cash 	88
    chemicalac 	14
    chemistry 	52
    clan 	138
    closecombatinitiative 	49
    coldac 	10
    computerliteracy 	52
    concealment 	53
    currentnano 	196
    dimach 	54
    disarmtrap 	54
    distanceweaponinitiative 	54
    dodge 	51
    driveair 	52
    driveground 	52
    duck 	51
    electricalengineering 	51
    energy 	159
    energyac 	10
    evade 	51
    expansion 	3
    fastattack 	53
    fatness 	1
    fieldquantumphysics 	52
    fireac 	10
    firstaid 	51
    flags 	0
    flingshot 	53
    fullauto 	55
    grenade 	53
    healdelta 	3
    healinterval 	28
    health 	182
    intelligence 	25
    life 	182
    losheight 	0
    lr_energyweapon 	54
    lr_multipleweapon 	53
    mapnavigation 	52
    martialarts 	53
    materialcreation 	54
    materiallocation 	54
    materialmetamorphose 	54
    mechanicalengineering 	51
    meleeac 	10
    meleeenergyweapon 	54
    meleemultiple 	54
    monsterdata 	203734
    monsterscale 	95
    nanoac 	41
    nanoenergypool 	54
    nanoprogramming 	52
    nanoprowessinitiative 	48
    npc_type 	80001
    npcfamily 	138
    onehandbluntweapons 	55
    onehandedgedweapon 	54
    parry 	54
    perception 	54
    pharmaceuticals 	52
    physicalprowessinitiative 	44
    piercing 	53
    pistol 	53
    poisonac 	14
    profession 	1
    projectileac 	10
    proximityrangeindoors 	13
    proximityrangeoutdoors 	25
    psychic 	25
    psychologicalmodification 	54
    psychology 	52
    race 	1
    radiationac 	10
    rifle 	53
    riposte 	53
    runspeed 	40
    sense 	25
    senseimprovement 	54
    sex 	2
    shotgun 	54
    side 	3
    sneakattack 	53
    stamina 	25
    strength 	32
    submachinegun 	54
    swim 	54
    throwingknife 	53
    throwngrapplingweapons 	54
    treatment 	51
    tutoring 	52
    twohandbluntweapons 	55
    twohandedgedweapons 	55
    visualprofession 	15
    weaponsmithing 	53
    xp 	0
    aggressiveness 	100
    stability 	100
    extroverty 	100
    conformity 	0
    level 	6
    equippedweapontype 	0
    EquippedRHWeapon 	0
    headmesh 	0
    VisualFlags 	31
    isfightingme 	0
    currentmovementmode 	3
    HasKnuBotData 	0
    waitstate 	2
    maxnanoenergy 	196
    titlelevel 	1
    nanointerval 	28
    selectedtarget 	1054
    selectedtargettype 	0
    charstate 	0
    amsmodifier 	0
    damageoverridetype 	0
    projectiledamagemodifier 	0
------------------------------------

.getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Mugger.

And the Looter is similarly interesting because its health is NOT the default level 1 health of 25 that many mobs in Subway currently have,, but it does ~10x the damage it should do for its level:
image

Looter [8 Fixer]
------------------------------------
    life 	35
    currentnano 	72
    fatness 	1
    race 	1
    monsterdata 	203745
    profession 	4
    accountflags 	0
    expansion 	3
    runspeed 	11
    losheight 	0
    visualprofession 	15
    sex 	2
    breed 	1
    monsterscale 	90
    clan 	138
    npc_type 	80001
    side 	3
    cash 	5
    health 	35
    energy 	25
    xp 	0
    aggdef 	100
    attitude 	1
    breedhostility 	0
    healinterval 	28
    healdelta 	3
    strength 	9
    agility 	7
    stamina 	7
    intelligence 	7
    sense 	7
    psychic 	7
    martialarts 	11
    brawl 	12
    riposte 	11
    dimach 	11
    onehandbluntweapons 	12
    onehandedgedweapon 	11
    piercing 	11
    twohandedgedweapons 	12
    twohandbluntweapons 	12
    meleeenergyweapon 	11
    parry 	11
    sneakattack 	11
    meleemultiple 	11
    fastattack 	11
    throwingknife 	10
    grenade 	10
    throwngrapplingweapons 	10
    bow 	11
    pistol 	11
    assaultrifle 	11
    submachinegun 	11
    shotgun 	11
    rifle 	11
    lr_energyweapon 	11
    flingshot 	11
    aimedshot 	11
    burst 	11
    fullauto 	12
    bowspecialattack 	11
    lr_multipleweapon 	11
    closecombatinitiative 	10
    distanceweaponinitiative 	10
    physicalprowessinitiative 	9
    nanoprowessinitiative 	10
    swim 	10
    bodydevelopment 	1
    duck 	10
    dodge 	10
    evade 	10
    projectileac 	0
    meleeac 	0
    energyac 	0
    chemicalac 	0
    radiationac 	0
    fireac 	0
    coldac 	0
    nanoac 	6
    poisonac 	0
    firstaid 	10
    treatment 	10
    mechanicalengineering 	10
    electricalengineering 	10
    fieldquantumphysics 	10
    weaponsmithing 	11
    pharmaceuticals 	10
    nanoprogramming 	10
    computerliteracy 	10
    psychology 	10
    chemistry 	10
    tutoring 	10
    materialmetamorphose 	10
    biologicalmetamorphose 	10
    psychologicalmodification 	10
    materialcreation 	10
    materiallocation 	10
    senseimprovement 	10
    nanoenergypool 	10
    flags 	0
    concealment 	10
    breakingentry 	14
    disarmtrap 	10
    perception 	10
    driveground 	10
    driveair 	10
    mapnavigation 	10
    proximityrangeindoors 	13
    proximityrangeoutdoors 	25
    aggressiveness 	0
    conformity 	0
    stability 	100
    extroverty 	0
    headmesh 	40695
    level 	8
    equippedweapontype 	0
    EquippedRHWeapon 	0
    VisualFlags 	31
    isfightingme 	0
    currentmovementmode 	3
    HasKnuBotData 	0
    waitstate 	2
    maxnanoenergy 	72
    titlelevel 	1
    nanointerval 	28
------------------------------------

.getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Looter.

Renaming this issue to better encapsulate the overall problem.

After chatting with @prkdrake , this issue is separate to #507 because the vendors in the Subway are level 180 and should give a lot of XP (even though they should never be killed due to their level). The guards mentioned in #507 should be able to be killed but should not give rewards. However,, #460 is likely a duplicate so I'm going to merge it in. The underlying issue here is that in the subway and possibly in many other areas, mobs stats are not matching their level. Output of `.getfull health` Mob | Output --- | --- Basic Tools Merchant [180 Trader] | Basic Tools Merchant's health is 25 (25 + 0). Mugger [6 Soldier] | Mugger's health is 182 (182 + 0). Discarded Pet [8 None] | Discarded Pet's health is 25 (25 + 0). The Mugger is an interesting one because their health is actually too high. Going to paste the unfiltered .getfull for investigation: ``` Mugger [6 Soldier] ------------------------------------ accountflags 0 aggdef 100 agility 20 aimedshot 54 assaultrifle 54 attitude 1 biologicalmetamorphose 54 bodydevelopment 6 bow 54 brawl 55 breakingentry 72 breed 1 breedhostility 100 burst 54 cash 88 chemicalac 14 chemistry 52 clan 138 closecombatinitiative 49 coldac 10 computerliteracy 52 concealment 53 currentnano 196 dimach 54 disarmtrap 54 distanceweaponinitiative 54 dodge 51 driveair 52 driveground 52 duck 51 electricalengineering 51 energy 159 energyac 10 evade 51 expansion 3 fastattack 53 fatness 1 fieldquantumphysics 52 fireac 10 firstaid 51 flags 0 flingshot 53 fullauto 55 grenade 53 healdelta 3 healinterval 28 health 182 intelligence 25 life 182 losheight 0 lr_energyweapon 54 lr_multipleweapon 53 mapnavigation 52 martialarts 53 materialcreation 54 materiallocation 54 materialmetamorphose 54 mechanicalengineering 51 meleeac 10 meleeenergyweapon 54 meleemultiple 54 monsterdata 203734 monsterscale 95 nanoac 41 nanoenergypool 54 nanoprogramming 52 nanoprowessinitiative 48 npc_type 80001 npcfamily 138 onehandbluntweapons 55 onehandedgedweapon 54 parry 54 perception 54 pharmaceuticals 52 physicalprowessinitiative 44 piercing 53 pistol 53 poisonac 14 profession 1 projectileac 10 proximityrangeindoors 13 proximityrangeoutdoors 25 psychic 25 psychologicalmodification 54 psychology 52 race 1 radiationac 10 rifle 53 riposte 53 runspeed 40 sense 25 senseimprovement 54 sex 2 shotgun 54 side 3 sneakattack 53 stamina 25 strength 32 submachinegun 54 swim 54 throwingknife 53 throwngrapplingweapons 54 treatment 51 tutoring 52 twohandbluntweapons 55 twohandedgedweapons 55 visualprofession 15 weaponsmithing 53 xp 0 aggressiveness 100 stability 100 extroverty 100 conformity 0 level 6 equippedweapontype 0 EquippedRHWeapon 0 headmesh 0 VisualFlags 31 isfightingme 0 currentmovementmode 3 HasKnuBotData 0 waitstate 2 maxnanoenergy 196 titlelevel 1 nanointerval 28 selectedtarget 1054 selectedtargettype 0 charstate 0 amsmodifier 0 damageoverridetype 0 projectiledamagemodifier 0 ------------------------------------ .getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Mugger. ``` And the Looter is similarly interesting because its health is NOT the default level 1 health of 25 that many mobs in Subway currently have,, but it does ~10x the damage it should do for its level: ![image](https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/assets/96363854/fb949bf8-e736-45bc-8861-8f133229bb5f) ``` Looter [8 Fixer] ------------------------------------ life 35 currentnano 72 fatness 1 race 1 monsterdata 203745 profession 4 accountflags 0 expansion 3 runspeed 11 losheight 0 visualprofession 15 sex 2 breed 1 monsterscale 90 clan 138 npc_type 80001 side 3 cash 5 health 35 energy 25 xp 0 aggdef 100 attitude 1 breedhostility 0 healinterval 28 healdelta 3 strength 9 agility 7 stamina 7 intelligence 7 sense 7 psychic 7 martialarts 11 brawl 12 riposte 11 dimach 11 onehandbluntweapons 12 onehandedgedweapon 11 piercing 11 twohandedgedweapons 12 twohandbluntweapons 12 meleeenergyweapon 11 parry 11 sneakattack 11 meleemultiple 11 fastattack 11 throwingknife 10 grenade 10 throwngrapplingweapons 10 bow 11 pistol 11 assaultrifle 11 submachinegun 11 shotgun 11 rifle 11 lr_energyweapon 11 flingshot 11 aimedshot 11 burst 11 fullauto 12 bowspecialattack 11 lr_multipleweapon 11 closecombatinitiative 10 distanceweaponinitiative 10 physicalprowessinitiative 9 nanoprowessinitiative 10 swim 10 bodydevelopment 1 duck 10 dodge 10 evade 10 projectileac 0 meleeac 0 energyac 0 chemicalac 0 radiationac 0 fireac 0 coldac 0 nanoac 6 poisonac 0 firstaid 10 treatment 10 mechanicalengineering 10 electricalengineering 10 fieldquantumphysics 10 weaponsmithing 11 pharmaceuticals 10 nanoprogramming 10 computerliteracy 10 psychology 10 chemistry 10 tutoring 10 materialmetamorphose 10 biologicalmetamorphose 10 psychologicalmodification 10 materialcreation 10 materiallocation 10 senseimprovement 10 nanoenergypool 10 flags 0 concealment 10 breakingentry 14 disarmtrap 10 perception 10 driveground 10 driveair 10 mapnavigation 10 proximityrangeindoors 13 proximityrangeoutdoors 25 aggressiveness 0 conformity 0 stability 100 extroverty 0 headmesh 40695 level 8 equippedweapontype 0 EquippedRHWeapon 0 VisualFlags 31 isfightingme 0 currentmovementmode 3 HasKnuBotData 0 waitstate 2 maxnanoenergy 72 titlelevel 1 nanointerval 28 ------------------------------------ .getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Looter. ``` Renaming this issue to better encapsulate the overall problem.
Zolarix commented 2024-01-28 02:06:11 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Linking https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/363 because if this issue is fixed first, then the high level filth fleas will no longer be killable by the players they were intended for and there is less incentive to travel through the Subway to level up for those that can kill them.

Linking https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/363 because if this issue is fixed first, then the high level filth fleas will no longer be killable by the players they were intended for and there is less incentive to travel through the Subway to level up for those that can kill them.
prkdrake commented 2024-02-02 12:45:29 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

This should be fixed now, please test it and let us know :)

This should be fixed now, please test it and let us know :)
Zolarix commented 2024-02-02 14:54:46 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Removing Fixed label as while mob health now correctly corresponds to their level, Looters are still doing far too much damage for their level (e.g. 225).

Removing Fixed label as while mob health now correctly corresponds to their level, Looters are still doing far too much damage for their level (e.g. 225).
prkdrake commented 2024-02-02 16:33:02 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Looter's weapon should be fixed too now

Looter's weapon should be fixed too now
Zolarix commented 2024-02-02 16:41:25 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Confirmed fixed:

Looter hit you for 14 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 12 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 16 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 15 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 12 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 11 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 9 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 15 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage.
Looter hit you for 9 points of projectile damage.

Given all known affected mobs have been resolved, would you like new issues made for any stragglers going forward @prkdrake ?

Confirmed fixed: ``` Looter hit you for 14 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 12 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 16 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 15 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 12 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 11 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 9 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 15 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 17 points of projectile damage. Looter hit you for 9 points of projectile damage. ``` Given all known affected mobs have been resolved, would you like new issues made for any stragglers going forward @prkdrake ?
Zolarix commented 2024-02-02 19:02:21 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Reopening because I think special attack damage from mobs is still not scaling correctly.

Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 136 points of Brawling damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.
You hit Workman Striker for 11 points of energy damage.
Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage.

.getfull on Workman Striker

Workman Striker [14 Enforcer]
------------------------------------
    life 	360
    currentnano 	360
    fatness 	1
    race 	1
    monsterdata 	203854
    profession 	9
    accountflags 	0
    expansion 	3
    runspeed 	58
    losheight 	0
    visualprofession 	15
    sex 	1
    breed 	4
    monsterscale 	96
    clan 	149
    npc_type 	80001
    side 	3
    cash 	85
    health 	360
    energy 	360
    xp 	0
    aggdef 	100
    attitude 	1
    breedhostility 	30
    healinterval 	27
    healdelta 	6
    strength 	42
    agility 	33
    stamina 	42
    intelligence 	33
    sense 	42
    psychic 	33
    martialarts 	83
    brawl 	85
    riposte 	84
    dimach 	85
    onehandbluntweapons 	85
    onehandedgedweapon 	84
    piercing 	84
    twohandedgedweapons 	85
    twohandbluntweapons 	85
    meleeenergyweapon 	84
    parry 	78
    sneakattack 	83
    meleemultiple 	84
    fastattack 	84
    throwingknife 	77
    grenade 	77
    throwngrapplingweapons 	77
    bow 	84
    pistol 	84
    assaultrifle 	84
    submachinegun 	84
    shotgun 	84
    rifle 	84
    lr_energyweapon 	84
    flingshot 	83
    aimedshot 	85
    burst 	84
    fullauto 	85
    bowspecialattack 	84
    lr_multipleweapon 	83
    closecombatinitiative 	77
    distanceweaponinitiative 	77
    physicalprowessinitiative 	77
    nanoprowessinitiative 	77
    swim 	78
    bodydevelopment 	10
    duck 	72
    dodge 	72
    evade 	72
    projectileac 	21
    meleeac 	21
    energyac 	21
    chemicalac 	21
    radiationac 	21
    fireac 	21
    coldac 	21
    nanoac 	58
    poisonac 	21
    firstaid 	73
    treatment 	72
    mechanicalengineering 	72
    electricalengineering 	72
    fieldquantumphysics 	72
    weaponsmithing 	73
    pharmaceuticals 	72
    nanoprogramming 	72
    computerliteracy 	72
    psychology 	73
    chemistry 	73
    tutoring 	72
    materialmetamorphose 	76
    biologicalmetamorphose 	76
    psychologicalmodification 	76
    materialcreation 	76
    materiallocation 	76
    senseimprovement 	76
    nanoenergypool 	76
    flags 	0
    concealment 	77
    breakingentry 	76
    disarmtrap 	77
    perception 	77
    driveground 	73
    driveair 	73
    mapnavigation 	73
    proximityrangeindoors 	13
    proximityrangeoutdoors 	25
    aggressiveness 	0
    conformity 	20
    stability 	100
    extroverty 	0
    headmesh 	40127
    level 	14
    equippedweapontype 	0
    EquippedRHWeapon 	0
    VisualFlags 	31
    isfightingme 	0
    currentmovementmode 	3
    HasKnuBotData 	0
    waitstate 	2
    maxnanoenergy 	188
    titlelevel 	1
    nanointerval 	28
    selectedtarget 	1084
    selectedtargettype 	0
    amsmodifier 	0
    damageoverridetype 	0
    meleedamagemodifier 	0
------------------------------------

.getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Workman Striker.
Reopening because I think special attack damage from mobs is still not scaling correctly. ``` Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. Workman Striker hit you for 136 points of Brawling damage. Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. You hit Workman Striker for 11 points of energy damage. Workman Striker hit you for 11 points of melee damage. ``` .getfull on Workman Striker ``` Workman Striker [14 Enforcer] ------------------------------------ life 360 currentnano 360 fatness 1 race 1 monsterdata 203854 profession 9 accountflags 0 expansion 3 runspeed 58 losheight 0 visualprofession 15 sex 1 breed 4 monsterscale 96 clan 149 npc_type 80001 side 3 cash 85 health 360 energy 360 xp 0 aggdef 100 attitude 1 breedhostility 30 healinterval 27 healdelta 6 strength 42 agility 33 stamina 42 intelligence 33 sense 42 psychic 33 martialarts 83 brawl 85 riposte 84 dimach 85 onehandbluntweapons 85 onehandedgedweapon 84 piercing 84 twohandedgedweapons 85 twohandbluntweapons 85 meleeenergyweapon 84 parry 78 sneakattack 83 meleemultiple 84 fastattack 84 throwingknife 77 grenade 77 throwngrapplingweapons 77 bow 84 pistol 84 assaultrifle 84 submachinegun 84 shotgun 84 rifle 84 lr_energyweapon 84 flingshot 83 aimedshot 85 burst 84 fullauto 85 bowspecialattack 84 lr_multipleweapon 83 closecombatinitiative 77 distanceweaponinitiative 77 physicalprowessinitiative 77 nanoprowessinitiative 77 swim 78 bodydevelopment 10 duck 72 dodge 72 evade 72 projectileac 21 meleeac 21 energyac 21 chemicalac 21 radiationac 21 fireac 21 coldac 21 nanoac 58 poisonac 21 firstaid 73 treatment 72 mechanicalengineering 72 electricalengineering 72 fieldquantumphysics 72 weaponsmithing 73 pharmaceuticals 72 nanoprogramming 72 computerliteracy 72 psychology 73 chemistry 73 tutoring 72 materialmetamorphose 76 biologicalmetamorphose 76 psychologicalmodification 76 materialcreation 76 materiallocation 76 senseimprovement 76 nanoenergypool 76 flags 0 concealment 77 breakingentry 76 disarmtrap 77 perception 77 driveground 73 driveair 73 mapnavigation 73 proximityrangeindoors 13 proximityrangeoutdoors 25 aggressiveness 0 conformity 20 stability 100 extroverty 0 headmesh 40127 level 14 equippedweapontype 0 EquippedRHWeapon 0 VisualFlags 31 isfightingme 0 currentmovementmode 3 HasKnuBotData 0 waitstate 2 maxnanoenergy 188 titlelevel 1 nanointerval 28 selectedtarget 1084 selectedtargettype 0 amsmodifier 0 damageoverridetype 0 meleedamagemodifier 0 ------------------------------------ .getfull succeeded - Listed all stats for Workman Striker. ```
Zolarix commented 2024-02-02 19:10:03 +01:00 (Migrated from github.com)

Closing after chatting with @prkdrake in favour of a new issue: https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/599

Closing after chatting with @prkdrake in favour of a new issue: https://github.com/project-rubika/issues/issues/599
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